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  • [Non Corsa] Car won't crank

    Problem with the X-Trail this time.

    Bit of background: Back in March out of the blue the X-Trail wouldn't start. Turn the key and absolutely nothing would happen. Turned out a thump on the starter motor with a lump hammer was needed (thanks Craig). Turned the key and it burst into life as if nothing had ever happened. Fast forward to last week and it wouldn't start again. It wheezed a tiny amount but that was it. Left it a few minutes and it started like normal. Now onto yesterday morning and it wouldn't start again. Just nothing when you turn the key. Whacked the starter motor but with no luck this time.

    Got the multimeter out and power is getting to the solenoid (voltage drop of about 1 volt from the battery), the battery is healthy (12-13 volts), no voltage drop across the positive cable running to the solenoid, earths are visually fine and with a jump cable linked between battery negative to the engine there's still nothing when trying to start (rules out a bad earth).

    Removed the starter motor and solenoid and parts seem to move freely. Bench tested the solenoid and the magnet works.

    Put it all back on the car and still nothing. Can't even hear the solenoid clunk when the key is turned, despite power going to it.

    With the key in the ignition but not turned I used a jump cable to go from battery positive to the solenoid ignition terminal but still no noise from it.

    Any suggestions? Worn solenoid that works on a bench test but with higher load isn't man enough? Broken starter motor? Seized engine (seems highly unlikely)?
    [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/classified-ads/parts-for-sale/1043-big-clear-out-exhaust-suspension-etc"][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Big clear out of parts[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
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  • #2
    First check that the battery is holding voltage under load - you can get a battery that shows healthy but collapses as soon as any load is put onto it. (I doubt this is the case as you'd usually hear the solenoid clicking in and out - but worth checking.)

    If the solenoid isn't making any noise when on the car then it sounds like that's most likely the problem - not sure why it's working on the bench and not on the car though. Unless there is a bad earth between the engine and the bodywork? You've run a jump lead from the battery -ve terminal to the body, try doing the same from the engine to the body.
    1972 Viva restoration thread - http://www.thecorsa.co.uk/projects-b....html#post1534

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Taurus View Post
      First check that the battery is holding voltage under load - you can get a battery that shows healthy but collapses as soon as any load is put onto it. (I doubt this is the case as you'd usually hear the solenoid clicking in and out - but worth checking.)

      If the solenoid isn't making any noise when on the car then it sounds like that's most likely the problem - not sure why it's working on the bench and not on the car though. Unless there is a bad earth between the engine and the bodywork? You've run a jump lead from the battery -ve terminal to the body, try doing the same from the engine to the body.
      Don't think it's collapsing under load as the solenoid voltage reading is taken when the key is being turned and held in the ignition. Reading around 11 and a half volts.

      I'll try earthing from engine to body.
      [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/classified-ads/parts-for-sale/1043-big-clear-out-exhaust-suspension-etc"][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Big clear out of parts[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
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      Comment


      • #4
        Just been out to do some more tests:
        - Battery holds 12.1 volts under load.
        - Negative to body doesn't work.
        - Negative to engine doesn't work.
        - Engine to body doesn't work.
        - Negative to engine and engine to body doesn't work.
        [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/classified-ads/parts-for-sale/1043-big-clear-out-exhaust-suspension-etc"][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Big clear out of parts[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
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        • #5
          Most likely scenario is that the solenoid / starter unit is stuffed.

          The outside chance is the unlikely event of the engine being locked due to timing slipped - but if you can turn it over on the crank pulley you can rule that out.
          1972 Viva restoration thread - http://www.thecorsa.co.uk/projects-b....html#post1534

          Comment


          • #6
            It's chain driven and considering it was running perfectly I really would be surprised if it's anything to do with timing.

            Slightly unsure about turning it by hand after reading this from someone who rebuilt one of the earlier diesel X-Trail engines:

            I reassembled the Head and Bolted into place.
            Placed all the balancer unit back and all the timing gear components ie tensioner,guide rails crank gear and Cam Gears back in and torqued down.
            I aligned the Balancer chain and the Timing Chain to the marks on the various locations and let the tension off the tensioner. I turned the Crank by hand and the chain bunched up and looked real messy and lots of erratic movements etc.
            So I realigned and then put the front timing cover back and and tried again.... Same thing happenend and it almost skipped teeth when I rotated the Crank again,..
            After speaking to someone that quite easily explained to me on Monday morning at work that most Timing Chain Tensioners are 'HYDRAULIC' and only operate effectively when oil pressure is applied to the engine...... (Insert Slap myself in head here)
            Soo mental note to self. 'HYDRAULIC tensioners work with oil pressure and the spring and lug piston is only there to assist to guide the chain on start up.. derrrr!
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            Comment


            • #7
              Take a gamble and swap the starter. Good chance it's the culprit.

              Comment


              • #8
                [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/classified-ads/parts-for-sale/1043-big-clear-out-exhaust-suspension-etc"][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Big clear out of parts[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
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                [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/225-atlantis-blue-5-door"][B][COLOR="#0000cd"]Corsa B Atlantis Blue[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/1301-1993-mazda-eunos-roadster"][B][COLOR="#006400"]Mazda Eunos V-Spec[/COLOR][/B][/URL]

                Comment


                • #9
                  It is a bit academic because the most likely thing is going to be the solenoid / starter - but a starter will not turn a seized engine. You would hear the solenoid operate and the pinion go into mesh - but there's no way a starter would turn over a seized engine.

                  If I read right you aren't hearing the solenoid engage the pinion in the first place - so start with that.
                  1972 Viva restoration thread - http://www.thecorsa.co.uk/projects-b....html#post1534

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When the key is turned and my head is down by the solenoid I don't hear anything. I hear various other relay clicks but they're elsewhere in the engine bay.

                    I've ordered a replacement starter/solenoid assembly that I'll pick up after work tomorrow.
                    [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/classified-ads/parts-for-sale/1043-big-clear-out-exhaust-suspension-etc"][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Big clear out of parts[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                    [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/732-sunny-melon-le-1-3-cdti"][B][COLOR="#0000cd"]Corsa D Yellow LE[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                    [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/225-atlantis-blue-5-door"][B][COLOR="#0000cd"]Corsa B Atlantis Blue[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                    [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/1301-1993-mazda-eunos-roadster"][B][COLOR="#006400"]Mazda Eunos V-Spec[/COLOR][/B][/URL]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For the record, it turns over by hand ok.

                      I'll report back tomorrow evening once I've tried the new starter and solenoid.
                      [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/classified-ads/parts-for-sale/1043-big-clear-out-exhaust-suspension-etc"][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Big clear out of parts[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                      [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/732-sunny-melon-le-1-3-cdti"][B][COLOR="#0000cd"]Corsa D Yellow LE[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                      [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/225-atlantis-blue-5-door"][B][COLOR="#0000cd"]Corsa B Atlantis Blue[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd be very surprised if it didn't fix it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It lives





                          I'd lost the will to start swapping old and new bits around to narrow it down. Just going to leave it with new starter and solenoid.
                          [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/classified-ads/parts-for-sale/1043-big-clear-out-exhaust-suspension-etc"][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]Big clear out of parts[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                          [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/732-sunny-melon-le-1-3-cdti"][B][COLOR="#0000cd"]Corsa D Yellow LE[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                          [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/225-atlantis-blue-5-door"][B][COLOR="#0000cd"]Corsa B Atlantis Blue[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
                          [URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/car-chat/projects-builds/1301-1993-mazda-eunos-roadster"][B][COLOR="#006400"]Mazda Eunos V-Spec[/COLOR][/B][/URL]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well done.

                            That starter wasn't a bad price.
                            1972 Viva restoration thread - http://www.thecorsa.co.uk/projects-b....html#post1534

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Told you to buy one months ago or whacking with a bigger hammer

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