[Corsa B 1993-2000] Cuts out and only restarts after a long wait!

[corkymills]

Hi all, I have a 1994 1.2 Corsa (petrol) and sometimes it cuts out and wont start unless I leave it and go back it several hours later. I did hijack another post in the Mechanical section but have started this thread to save confusion (thanks for the tip Taurus) I don`t have a Crankcase sensor on this engine and I changed the CTS on Saturday. Used the car on Monday, 12 miles in the morning and 12 miles on the afternoon, then went for a short ride on the evening. No problems. This morning started no problem, drove less than 2 miles and it cut out and refused to start. I am pretty sure I heard a click from the cockpit area just before it died. Relay?? I have even tried discconecting the battery for a short while to see if that does anything. I have left the car parked up and got a lift home, will go to it later and start/toe it home.

Regards................corky

[Dave]

You have the C12NZ engine I'm assuming? 1.2 8v? The reason people suggest crankshaft sensor is because the sensor is effectively a small winging of thin copper wire, deisgned to sense voltage fluctuations caused by induciton. The C12NZ uses a similar type sensor, but its in the dizzy, called a hall effect sensor. Have you changed this? This sensor is used to picki up engine speed from and report to the ECU, just like the crankshaft sensor does on other engines.

The symptoms do sound quite like a crankshaft/hall effect sensor issue. But as with many problems, symptoms of one issue, often clash with those of others.

The relay noise you heard is probably correct, things like the fuel pump relay will click off when the engine stops (as a safety measure to stop fuel being pumped in a crash etc...) so its entirely likely you heard a click, but it wont be the cause I'm afraid.

Dave

[Taurus]

Just a thought - on yours the fuel pump relay is behind the trim panel in the driver's side footwell. It's may be a case of chicken and egg (or cart and horse ) ie which comes first.

If the fuel pump relay is actually the problem it would imitate exactly what happens when a crankshaft sensor fails (even though of course you don't have a crankshaft sensor on your car). If the relay is overheating it may be the cause of the problem rather than the result.

I know for later versions the relay used is generic so you can get spares anywhere, even Halford sell one that fits. Not 100% sure for your model - but for the price of a relay it's worth trying.

[corkymills]

Hi, Seasons Greetings to you both. Yes I think it must be C12NZ engine. The Haynes manual I have is March 1993 to 1997 and has very limited info on this engine compared to the S O H C with distributor less ignition.Went back to the car after 4 hours and still no start. Toed it home and left it overnight. Started first time this morning. I can hear what must be the fuel relay clicking when I put ignition on. So, is it a trip to the local breakers yard to get another distributor and relay? Can I still get a new distributor for a car nearly 20 years old? Thanks again chaps.

[Taurus]

When you turn the ignition on if the fuel pump relay is operating but it won't start then it's unlikely to be the relay itself. But did you hear the fuel pump run briefly when the relay clicked? The snag with your SPI is that it's not as easy to check for fuel pressure at the injector as it is on MPI engines.

I may be getting confused between threads as this started on another thread - when it won't fire have you checked for a spark and for fuel reaching the cylinders (on the SPI engine it's easier just to check the plugs are wet after cranking)?

It could be the dizzy (and yes you can get them) - but it might alternatively be the fuel pump. Intermittent problems are a pain - you can't just test the pump off the car - you have to wait for it not to start before you can check anything. But next time it won't fire check for sparks and if the plugs are wet after cranking. If the plugs are dry the necxt check is if there is a live feed to the pump on cranking (ie is the fuel pump relay being activated but the pump isn't running.)

[corkymills]

Hi Taurus, thanks for your continued help, much appreciated my friend. I am going to pop to a breakers yard and replace the distributor and the fuel relay. In the mean time I have joined the AA so the next time it conks out on me I can call them out and let them diagnose the problem. I will let you know how it goes.

Regards................corky

[corkymills]

I tried a few local breakers yards and they haven`t got anything in that old so I got a 12v 30 amp relay from halfords but when I started the car the revs were all over the place and when they died down to an idle it just cut out but would restart. So have put the old one back in. I was going through some old posts on here the other night (about 90 pages) and someone suggested disconnecting the battery for 24 hours. This apparently resets the engine management system. Worth a try. I once had an Austin Montego that had a similar problem, in the end I replaced the little black box and had no further trouble.

Regards..............corky

[Taurus]

The fact that it misbehaved when you changed that relay suggests you're honing in on the cause of the problem. If I remember right Halfords used to sell a relay that was identical to the fuel pump relay - you need the right connections of course. But it's a few years since I had one of those so they may not sell them anymore.

Yes - on yours disconnecting the battery will clear the ECU. Just bear in mind that when you reconnect the ECU needs to 'learn' some parameters, which can take a few miles driving to settle down. Disconnect overnight is more than enough.

[corkymills]

hi Taurus, this is the relay Halfords do Halfords | Halfords (HEF554) Relay 12v 30amp 4 Pin As I said, I fitted it and the revs were all over the place. I stayed on my drive just in case. The wiring diagram was close to the one in the Haynes Manual so I gave it a go. The one that`s in at the moment is a Bosch, Purple the same as the connection it fits into. I sure I read somewhere that there was two relays, one purple and one green, unless that is for later models. In the post I read regarding the disconnection of the battery, the guy said when reconnecting to start the engine and let it idle for 5 mins to allow the ECU to "reboot" itself. I will leave it overnight and see in the morning. Thanks again chap.

Regards..........corky

[AJ]

[corkymills]

Broke down on way home from work, same problem. Called AA straight away diagnosed the distributor to be at fault. He said there was a component inside that plays up when it gets warm and will only restart when it has gone cold again. He gave me the number of somewhere that supplies reconditioned ones as he got one for his wife`s M reg Corsa. Waiting for a reply from him as to whether he has got one in stock. AA guy also said something about a Trip box also gives this type of problem (wherever that is). Looks like could be on the way to job sorted! Thanks again Dave, Taurus and AJ for your help.

Regards...........corky...

[Vegas]

:/;

[Dave]

Boom! Got it in the first post. Pro skills.

[Taurus]

Give the man a coconut

Glad it seems to be tracked down. To be fair those old Hall Effect dizzys are pretty reliable - much more reliable than the later crankshaft sensor systems.

[corkymills]

Picked one up from Europarts Aston on my way home from work. 10 mins to fit, jobs a good un! Its nice to be able to put an end to a post. So many times I have gone threw page after page of post with people who have exactly the same problem only to get to the end of there post and "NOTHING" "Did you fix it?" "Did you scrap it?" "What!" Its so annoying. (Rant over). Thanks again guys, I dare say I will be needing your superior knowledge again soon. Dave, enjoy your coconut. Vegas, don't quite know what that means but thanks anyway.

Regards...................corky