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Thread: Tim & Tam's modern feminism thread

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    Tim
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    Tim & Tam's modern feminism thread

    Hardcore, back to what we were discussing yesterday get your mate to read this Oops! A BPD Did It Again! Another Post-Break Up Pregnancy to Trap a Man | Shrink4Men

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    Diesel lover Hardcore's Avatar
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    No use with him anymore i don't think Tim. He's been with her for about 8 years now and he just enjoys the easy routes in life. I've tried talking to him about this stuff before several times, but he just ends up just getting annoyed.
    You can't help people that don't want the help

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    Tim
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    You can't, he will be in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) it's hard to pull him out.

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    Diesel lover Hardcore's Avatar
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    Sounds right. He's scared of her for sure, feels he has an obligation as a father to his family to stick by them no matter what, and the guilt because when she does nasty things it's ok. When he does the same things, he's made to feel bad about it. Even if it's something that's happened and not his fault, he'll initially stand his ground then eventually submit and feel as if it was his fault.

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    Tim
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    It's just abuse and she is controlling him by it. Thing is if it was a woman suffering it she would have so many places to find help where as a man doesn't.

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    Diesel lover Hardcore's Avatar
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    I'm told by both feminist activists and someone who work at women's aid centres that although mental domestic abuse happens with both sexes, there are more problems with physical violence against women than there is men.
    But i agree, despite this there should be more support made available for men. Maybe the support that is currently available is under utilised?

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    Tim
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    Feminist activists and someone who works at a WOMENS aid centre totally unbiased sources? Do you understand now why I dislike modern feminists? Rather than wanting to help men who suffer domestic violence they simple state it doesn't happen as much? Also downplaying emotional abuse as if it isn't as important.

    Everything to be equal accept when they don't want it to be equal!

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    Diesel lover Hardcore's Avatar
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    The rights are the same with both, but the problems both sexes face are not always equal.
    I know you dislike the rape analogies but they're the clearest to understand and they follow a similar way of rationalising the way things are.

    Rape laws were introduced to protect women, because men keep raping women.
    Although the law applies to both sexes, it would be irrational to invest as much (note, that doesn't mean none at all) of the taxpayers funding into something which likely will be under utilised.

    Although mental abuse probably is equal across both sexes in domestic relationships, but judging by police statistics women are physically assaulted more and inured worse when compared to men. Hence more funding and more focus on the woman side of it because the problem is larger for that gender.

    Engage your brain. Think rationally about why things are the way they are rather than simply dismissing them.

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    Tim
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    Brain engaged men make up 40% of domestic violence according to statistics. Women's domestic violence refuges, and other help, receives the majority of spending, women's aid centre doesn't want the truth to be known as they are scared their funding will decrease and ultimately could lose their job?

    Feminist doesn't want the truth out as it stops them 'being the victim'?

    The reason I don't like the rape analogy is because it is correct that in this country more women get raped then men, in America more males get raped then women however that's not part of our countries discussions, but it constantly gets brought up in discussion like this. I haven't suggested we should cut funding and change our stance on rape in this country, I'm suggesting we should split spending to help 40% of victims of a crime which are currently not receiving the help they need.

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    Tim
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    Let me put this another way, how many people have seen a woman hit a man as she knows she is immune to any comeback? How many people have seen a man hit a women?

    Still think male abuse is still a very small percentage?

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    Come on Tim, you're speaking to me as if i haven't considered these points already. I got my nose broke by a girl many moons ago, so it's not like i'm being biased towards the women.

    The reason women hitting men is considered more acceptable within society is because through patriarchy, society has came to view women as weak and less of a threat. That's something feminism works against...
    That doesn't mean it's ok for a woman to strike a man, far from it. Doing so would be hypocritical and idiotic of them and if the man retaliated with violence after it, then that's on their own head imo.

    No one should be hitting anyone. I agree, there should be more support for men, but it's only more recently male domestic violence has became more of a problem than back in the 70's and 80's. More activism is needed.
    I was only pointing out, it's more of a problem with women. Much more women die at the result of violence from men in relationships than vice versa. Repeat offences happen more often towards women.
    More balance is needed, but the problems are not equal in my opinion.

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    'VXR' Member Vegas's Avatar
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    Why te **** is this site so serious lately
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    Tim
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    You are right much more women die by the result of violence compared to men 62% (females killed by domestic violence) compared to 38% (males killed by domestic violence)...Domestic violence against men - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As a 60-40 split isn't enough to concern you, would a 55-45 or does it have to be 50-50.

    Obviously it's because men are stronger? Except 84% of women use weapons whereas 25% of men do.

    So a feminist has minimised this to you but you are now blaming patriarchy? Surely if that was the case the feminist would be shouting from the roof tops about this as they want equal rights? How about the problem is people like this feminist minimising these problems which adds to the problems of men being seen as weak if they suffer domestic violence?

    Also this was looked at in the 1970s, check the data dates, and the first women's shelter was opened in 1971. So actually domestic violence against men has been a problem for the same amount of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas View Post
    Why te **** is this site so serious lately
    Can we not have a section that only Tim and tam can see to post their arguments/debates in?
    Vegas and Aaron like this.

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    Tim
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    Fair point

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    Diesel lover Hardcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    But i agree, despite this there should be more support made available for men.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    I agree, there should be more support for men
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    As a 60-40 split isn't enough to concern you,
    I've not once said it's not a problem for men, please stop misrepresenting my views.

    I look at the evidence, behavior between different social groups, studies then through debate form my own conclusions. If you think i'm all hugs and friends with fellow feminists or activists in anything i support, you're mistaken.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, back on topic to keep ramdon chat random i'm going to share with you all i have a pierced penis.

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    Tim
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Come on Tim, you're speaking to me as if i haven't considered these points already. I got my nose broke by a girl many moons ago, so it's not like i'm being biased towards the women.

    The reason women hitting men is considered more acceptable within society is because through patriarchy, society has came to view women as weak and less of a threat. That's something feminism works against...
    That doesn't mean it's ok for a woman to strike a man, far from it. Doing so would be hypocritical and idiotic of them and if the man retaliated with violence after it, then that's on their own head imo.

    No one should be hitting anyone. I agree, there should be more support for men, but it's only more recently male domestic violence has became more of a problem than back in the 70's and 80's. More activism is needed.
    I was only pointing out, it's more of a problem with women. Much more women die at the result of violence from men in relationships than vice versa. Repeat offences happen more often towards women.
    More balance is needed, but the problems are not equal in my opinion.
    I know you have said there should be more help for men but then you continuously state how much worse it is for women. I'm showing that actually it's pretty even and the problems should be treat equally.

    I do think you seem to lean towards the feminist side a lot more, I also think you see modern feminism as the same as first wave feminism where current modern feminism is nothing like it.

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    Tim
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, back on topic to keep ramdon chat random i'm going to share with you all i have a pierced penis.
    Keep that **** out of our serious debate thread
    Aaron likes this.

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    Archbishop of Banterbury Coleman's Avatar
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    Just for my own curiosity, do you guys have any studies/reports regarding the split of domestic violence? Interested to read about it to understand this debate some more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas View Post
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    Get your official TC stickers here!!

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    Tim
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    The Wikipedia I linked to early, also Male Domestic Violence Awareness Week - NCDV | NCDV

    Also a very interesting post from a police officer about why it is reported that women suffer more domestic violence Cop Talk: Domestic Violence Statistics and Police Procedures, Part One | Shrink4Men

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Wikipedia I linked to early, also http://www.ncdv.org.uk/male-domestic-violence-awareness-week/

    Also a very interesting post from a police officer about why it is reported that women suffer more domestic violence http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/11/18/cop-talk-domestic-violence-statistics-and-police-procedures-part-one/

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