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Thread: Info needed turbo x16xel

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    Info needed turbo x16xel

    Hi guys just lookin for some info on the above
    has anyone ever done it before ?
    Just a few questions I have about it
    which turbo to use ?
    do I need to uprate block internals? arps are a must
    Can I buy a ready made manifold ? Or is it a custom job ?
    can I buy a inter cooler and boost pipe kit or is it a custom job again ?
    I'm a mechanic but new to this end of it
    cheers guys

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    Well to start you will need forged rods., you will need either different pistons or a decomp plate to drop compression, pretty sure manifolds will need to be custom although someone may do an off the shelf one and you could probably get away with using a vx inlet manny with the throttle removed. There's 2 lads, on one corsa sport and one on mig, both boosted there's and blew the bottom ends to pieces. You will also need stand alone management the fuel system will need updating and hours trying to set it up nicely and even if you do it all properly and spend thousands you'd probably only see around 200bhp before g eating reliability problems.

    the better and probably cheaper option will be either a 20xe, 20let or try sourcing a Vxr lump. Or save your Money put the 16xe on a set of itbs and exhaust mapped properly should be good for around 145 150bhp.
    Take a look, Its old and rusty[URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/projects-builds/182-zetec-powered-mk1-fiesta.html"]
    https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/projects-builds/182-zetec-powered-mk1-fiesta.html[/URL]

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    Hi

    Thanks small
    think I've me heart set on a turbo,d x16
    ive a c20let and a nice few unwanted raritys that im going to sell to fund it
    Would 1500 get it done fully I'm not looking for mad power I'd love a reliable 200 bhp
    if that's reliable ? You know there names ? Or links ?
    I'm not having 15 mpg off tbs and a opc/vxr engines is like rocking horse ****e over here in Ireland
    Opel scene is tiny over here and a turbod x16 would nearly finish it

    would the power box work with the turbo ok too ?
    Would it be really worth doing I've a gsi to build it in to transfer to my good corsa so I've a daily
    I've no problem spending hours and thousands doing it I want something completely different
    dont really want to go over 1.6 and I want boost and a small block lump

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    Hate to say it mate but 1500euro won't even get you close! Set of forged rods and pistons will set you Back about 900quid management will cost you about 500 plus mapping and setting up costs. The. You'd need 200oddf or fuel pumps swirl pots ect, powerbox should work although I'm not sure about inlet runner lengths, inter cooler and pipings gonna set you back about 150 for a cheap setup custom turbo manifolds gonna be another few hundred.. List goes on mate. Have a google about it's been done a fair few times, just needs to be done properly first time round otherwise yourl have massive reliability issuers and it will probably end up blowing up.
    Take a look, Its old and rusty[URL="https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/projects-builds/182-zetec-powered-mk1-fiesta.html"]
    https://www.thecorsa.co.uk/projects-builds/182-zetec-powered-mk1-fiesta.html[/URL]

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    Sorry forgot to mention I'd have no problem doubling or tripling it to get it done right first time
    Could I use k16 c20let turbo mmaybes I do I have to use swirls pots and stuff ?
    no way upping the fuel pressure and different pump would work ?
    Custom aanything over here will cost a bomb as there's bearly any shops about ?
    If I get low comp pistons from a vxr corsa and bore block I shouldn't have to use decomp plates or use 3xheadgaskets ?
    this is the way I'd really like to go hope it happens

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    Steel Rods - You can get PEC branded steel rods, from a UK seller on eBay HERE at 550 (or from a lithuanian seller at 300.... Risky, lol). Or if you prefer an actual company, the very trusted SBD can sell you Arrow branded Steel Rods at 804 inc VAT - HERE

    As has been said, X16's are ok at 100 odd bhp.. They arent built for big powers though, and they prove it every time by ****ting themselves out the bottom. I know it seems like rods are expensive, but they are its achilles heel in this sort of application.

    De-Compression plates I've never actually seen for sale in any proper places, I think people just get machine shops to make them. Warren G is known to have sold them. Who is a popular vaux scene tuner in the UK if you didnt know. No more than 50 really.

    Management is the big cost, for the ECU, loom and a base map you'll be looking at anywhere around 1000. Then mapping after that is usually charged by the hour by the mapper, but it'll take a day to map properly so is usually 300-500ish.

    Manifolds, obviously the exahsut manifold will need custom fabricating most likely from scratch. But any decent shop can make one. Inlet manifold, I would probably avoid the standard lower inlet if I was doing it, get a custom one made up, use a plenum style inlet. The standard manifolds are well known to be restrictive, it'll only amplify the restrictiveness when you tr and shove boost through it.

    I would say, all in, you wouldnt have much change from 2500-3000, and thats getting things done cheaply, and perhaps not properly... FYI that convers to about 3000-3500 EUR

    Good luck! It has been done before though, in the UK. And I have seen full kits being sold from people past projects, that typically sell for around 1.5k but they dont exactly come up every weekend if you catch my drift.
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    RE: The K16 turbo, if you have one, and you have the let manifold, then you can get custom exhaust places to re-flange the manifold, and make it fit an x16. But tbh its a manky way of going about it. If you're going to do custom work on a manifold, why make it a ****ty old standard manifold? Buy a LET stainless tubular manifold and downpipe for 170, and have them re-flange that. Then use the K16 turbo. But keep in mind it'll be about the same price to jsut buy an eBay turbo at 150ish brand new, and have a custom manifold made up for the x16.

    RE: Fuel. You dont HAVE to run swirl pots and the like no, they're generally only needed for track use, where fuel starvation due to cornering is an issue. But fuel delivery in general is something you want to address properly. Going lean on a boosted engine is not a great thing. Even fancy ass steel rods will melt at some point, lol. If I were you, I'd replace the in-tank pump with a Walbro 255, feed that into a high flow external pump (and probably use a high flow external filter too and bin the standard filter) then run new lines to the bay, and feed it all into an adjustable FPR (make sure its rising rate though, with a boost reference vac port on it.) That would do me for the fuel system tbh.

    Dave
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    Thanks so much Dave and small for help
    i honestly think this is the way I'm going to go
    Mapping on opel is **** over here so I'm prepared for a trip over to yous to get it done right
    how would I get a custom manifold made up do I have to hand the shop a x16 exhaust flange and say make a turbo manifold to suit whatever the turbo fitment I get is ???yea .
    I've a full c20let and k16 but I don't wanna use it you may think just fit that it be cheaper but I don't want too for many reasons
    I don't think the k16 separates from the manifold on it
    fueling yes that was along the lines I was thinking of
    I'm gonna start making a list of bits now
    another bit I'm unsure of is this waste gate and dump valve stuff
    ive a bedroom full of Opel raritys including 3 sets of good wheels that are no use to us when I go 5 stud that's gonna fund it for us and a gsi to brake

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyley View Post
    Thanks so much Dave and small for help
    i honestly think this is the way I'm going to go
    Mapping on opel is **** over here so I'm prepared for a trip over to yous to get it done right
    how would I get a custom manifold made up do I have to hand the shop a x16 exhaust flange and say make a turbo manifold to suit whatever the turbo fitment I get is ???yea .
    I've a full c20let and k16 but I don't wanna use it you may think just fit that it be cheaper but I don't want too for many reasons
    I don't think the k16 separates from the manifold on it
    fueling yes that was along the lines I was thinking of
    I'm gonna start making a list of bits now
    another bit I'm unsure of is this waste gate and dump valve stuff
    ive a bedroom full of Opel raritys including 3 sets of good wheels that are no use to us when I go 5 stud that's gonna fund it for us and a gsi to brake
    To get a custom one made up, yeh, if you can find a flange, then buy that, and say to them, make that a tubular turbo manifold to fit a T3 or T4 turbo. Or if you cant find a flange (i dont know of anywhere that sells them, but there are places selling C20XE ones, so I'd imageine they could make you one) then give them the old manifold for them to either cut a new flange from like a stencil, or to cut up and use to weld onto directly. Either way it can be done. Ring around a few decent exhaust/tuning shops and ask them.

    RE: The K16, yeh you're right, the standard manifold IS the turbo exhaust housing aswell, probably not a good way to go.

    The dump valve and wastegate. Well the wastegate will depend on what type of turbo you get. If you get an internal wastegate turbo (you probably will at this power level) then the wastegate is inside the turbo exhaust housing, and on the outside of the turbo you'll have the wastegate actuator, which is a vacuum/boost referecnce controlled actuator, that moces the wastegate flap inside the turbo. Literally all you'd have to do is pipe a vac line to the wastegate actuator for this to work. If you were going more power, or just like shiney fancy things, then you could go external wastegate, which is where you run a phsyical wastegate, attached to the exhaust manifold (so you'd need the exhaust place to fit a wastegate port into the turbo manifold too. Obviously if you do this, you'd have to buy an externally wastegated turbo, which doesnt use the wastegate actuator or anything. All the vac pipes would now run to the external wastegate sitting on the turbo manifold. It all makes sense if you understnad what it's doing and where, lol.

    Dave
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    Ahh yes I understand now and know what they do so k16 in internally wastgated cause it has a actuator no I rather not go externally
    Are internals wastgated turbod better ?
    Can I run a dump valve ? Probley a stupid ? At this point just heard they engine don't run right with them
    think I heard the name David Dixon when it comes to flanges would he have one ?
    Which is better or handier t3 or t4 ?
    good exhaust places are few and far between over here but ill find one
    thanks again wish I had your knowledge on this stuff

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    Dave dixon for flanges

    I understand being diffrent is good but this route over a let is still like chalk and cheese the x16 isnt a good engine

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    Would just like to stay small block for handling
    I believe that well hoping that doing this properly first Time it will last
    but there's a doubt in me mind when I take it on a odd track day it'll blow up
    hopfully not

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    As long as you've got forged pistons and rods, arp rod bolts/head studs, uprated valvesprings etc and everythings set up proper you shouldn't have too much of a problem. Seen a few examples running close to 200bhp with no problems, it will cost a lot though!

    Can pick up all the turbo parts 2nd hand around 600-1k I've seen kits go for (turbo, manifolds, intercooler and pipework), management can be up to 1k and forged bottom end your looking at 1k then you need to pay for it all to be set up
    Last edited by Sam_Sri; 13-10-2013 at 10:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyley View Post
    Ahh yes I understand now and know what they do so k16 in internally wastgated cause it has a actuator no I rather not go externally
    Are internals wastgated turbod better ?

    No, they're simpler, so i guess if youre going for simple then they're better, but by design they are limited on what power they can produce. Using an external wastegate with say a 1.5" dump port, can vent a ton more exhaust gas than the internal wastegate port can built into the turbine housing.

    Can I run a dump valve ? Probley a stupid ? At this point just heard they engine don't run right with them
    Yeh, you'll need to run one, sorry I forgot to reply to that bit of the question in the earlier post. When you buy/make your boost pipes you'll put a dump valve take off port in one of them, somewhere close to the tophat/inlet. You'll connect your dump valve there, and run a vac line to it. On a LET the dump valve take off is built into the aftermarket top hats that you can buy from the likes of TX Autoosport etc..

    think I heard the name David Dixon when it comes to flanges would he have one ?
    Yes, was trying to think of the name earlier, but couldnt think of it, lol. If you tell him what you're up to he'll proba have a few bits you'll want, or will offer advice, been on vaux scene a while.

    Which is better or handier t3 or t4 ?
    Very open question, the difference between them is the size of the turbine housing. Obviously T4 being bigger than T3. Smaller turbos are more suited to your application because you have a smaller engine, whack a big turbo on and you'll spend til 5.5k rpm trying to spool the bugger up. What you probably want to be looking for, is a T3/T4 Hybrid, also called T3/4 or T34 (wrongly). Basically what this is is a T3 turbine housing and wheel, mated to a T4 compressor housing and wheel, so it's easier for smaller engines to spool up, due to the smaller turbine wheel, but creates higher boost due to the larger compressor housing and compressor wheel.

    good exhaust places are few and far between over here but ill find one
    thanks again wish I had your knowledge on this stuff

    No problem, you do have our knowledge, you're on the forum lol. Ask away!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyley View Post
    Would just like to stay small block for handling
    I believe that well hoping that doing this properly first Time it will last
    but there's a doubt in me mind when I take it on a odd track day it'll blow up
    hopfully not

    Nah it won't blow up if you do it right. Get a wideband AFR gauge/sensor for it, get it mapped so it cant go lean and you're golden tbh. Invest in an electronic boost controller too, its a couple hundred quid to buy new, but with it controlling your boost, its near impossible to ever go overboost and blow up the engine. Something thats always possible using bleed valves/manual boost controllers.
    Dave
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    if you get the suspension right, it handles as good as a small block.

    10 years ago keeping a small block was done because brakes and suspension wasnt as advanced. now there is no difference.


    and, having seen how x16's are generally **** even in std form, i wouldnt want to sink silly money into one. if you have a c20let already, spend 1500 euro refreshing it to a good spec.


    btw pec psitons are actually very good.

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    Ok I'm gonna have a think about this would really like to use the c20let the 1.6 is for insurance affordability haha
    2 more questions if you had 1500 what upgrades would you do to the c20let ? I've nearly everything there too intercooler ,piping , equal length shafts, full mounts , full engine and turbo ,f28 box with quaife diff
    and I'm converting the rear beam to disk 5 stud and I'm wondering how to plumb In the bias valve doesn't one pipe control a front left wheel and a back right wheel and te other pipe controlls front right and back left wheel ? I'm am I thinking of something else
    Last edited by Wyley; 14-10-2013 at 07:03 PM. Reason: More info

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    Forged rods pistons and arp bolts

    Z20 oil pump and pickup

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    Quote Originally Posted by craig55 View Post
    Forged rods pistons and arp bolts

    Z20 oil pump and pickup
    And an XE cam, and a high flow top hat.
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    I did this conversion a few years back, it was a pain in the ass and ran like a bag of spanners, was using Emerald ECU, EDS intercooler, VXR turbo, custom pipework, home made plenum from a GTRi. its was just one head ache after the other. the biggest of which was the oil filter sitting on the front of the block where the turbo wanted to go. then there was the issue of the turbo oil - where to send it. I opted for a decompression plate, got a lazer cutting firm to make it, gave them a head gasket and got it done, cost 10.
    I would think long and hard before you attempt this!
    I ended up ripping it all out selling off the parts and going for throttle bodies! lot more fun for the 1.6

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    No offence matthew, but an oil filter relocation kit, so running a remote oil filter, and a return bung welded into the sump would have fixed both of those problems. The poor running I'm willing to bet my best socks that it could have been mapped out successfully if A) you used a better management system, and B) you had a better mapper map it.
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